remember the beer that Paxton made called Saucerful of Secrets? it was beer that moved around in development. what was in it? made from so much grain it filled the mash tun to the brim. too many different hops. like six kinds Belgium candy sugar date sugar. aged in an unknown barrel until it was less angry and more blended. even then the beer had bite as it boiled in at 12%. or was it 14%. who can remember after more than two? I remember is was black in color. and it did not bubble at all.